Talking about homosexuality with Calvin
May. 29th, 2013 11:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
csberryTonight at the troop meeting, the Scoutmaster gave a very vague and general update about the vote last week about the policy change for homosexual boys. He mentioned the vote had to do with membership criteria, but each boy should talk to his parents about it since the subject was not something he felt he should address.
So, on our way home tonight, Calvin turned to me and asked what in the world was the Scoutmaster talking about. I started off by asking Calvin (nearly 11) if he remembered what it means to be homosexual or gay. I don't know about other parents, but I've already talked to Calvin about homosexuality. He said that it was when people are attracted to their same sex. I then talked to him about the Bible's statements on homosexuality in the OT and how the Boy Scouts take an oath to do their "Duty to God." I let him know that some people think that because of those two things, that it is incongruous to those people that a boy can do his duty to God and be a homosexual. Because of that, homosexuals had been prohibited from being in the Boy Scouts.
I went into the recent policy change, how the vote was relatively close, and how people who disagree with the change are very mad and why it is that they feel so emotionally about this being a bad decision. I finally let him know about my feelings - how I feel that Jesus taught that sin is between a person and God and that we shouldn't "throw stones" at others for their sin. I told him that all boys should be able to learn the Scouting skills and character traits no matter their sexual orientation. One sin doesn't spoil the person and they deserve the opportunity to be a part of a great organization such as the BSA.
I frequently hear from those that oppose homosexuals in Scouting that they don't want to have to talk to their children about sex. You know what? I still haven't talked to Calvin about sexual acts that homosexuals perform...because that isn't relevant in any way to the policy and he never asked for that kind of info. What is the point in my discussing anal sex with my child on this issue? When talking about a wedding taking place, I don't tell my children about the sex the newlyweds will be having that night and during their honeymoon. *sigh*
So, on our way home tonight, Calvin turned to me and asked what in the world was the Scoutmaster talking about. I started off by asking Calvin (nearly 11) if he remembered what it means to be homosexual or gay. I don't know about other parents, but I've already talked to Calvin about homosexuality. He said that it was when people are attracted to their same sex. I then talked to him about the Bible's statements on homosexuality in the OT and how the Boy Scouts take an oath to do their "Duty to God." I let him know that some people think that because of those two things, that it is incongruous to those people that a boy can do his duty to God and be a homosexual. Because of that, homosexuals had been prohibited from being in the Boy Scouts.
I went into the recent policy change, how the vote was relatively close, and how people who disagree with the change are very mad and why it is that they feel so emotionally about this being a bad decision. I finally let him know about my feelings - how I feel that Jesus taught that sin is between a person and God and that we shouldn't "throw stones" at others for their sin. I told him that all boys should be able to learn the Scouting skills and character traits no matter their sexual orientation. One sin doesn't spoil the person and they deserve the opportunity to be a part of a great organization such as the BSA.
I frequently hear from those that oppose homosexuals in Scouting that they don't want to have to talk to their children about sex. You know what? I still haven't talked to Calvin about sexual acts that homosexuals perform...because that isn't relevant in any way to the policy and he never asked for that kind of info. What is the point in my discussing anal sex with my child on this issue? When talking about a wedding taking place, I don't tell my children about the sex the newlyweds will be having that night and during their honeymoon. *sigh*
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Date: 2013-05-30 11:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-05-30 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-05-30 01:56 pm (UTC)Also those you might review Romans 1, which not only reiterates homosexuality as a sin, but implicates that those who give "hearty assent" are also guilty. I get a bit frustrated when people(not you, just in general) excuse this as an OT issue only, or because only Paul wrote about it also doesn't apply.
Where I am right now on homosexuality and the Bible
Date: 2013-05-30 09:50 pm (UTC)I came back to Church confident in the Gospels but unsure how to understand the OT in light of what happened in the NT. I am certainly not a Bible scholar and I don't believe the Bible is literal and infallible, but when I returned to The Church I decided to have a mindset that there may be a great Truth in the verses that strike a discordant tone to me. I was to look at those passages and search for a context or other information that may clarify the written word. Along with that, I was definitely a Paul skeptic. As God tends to do, he plopped me down into Living Waters when the group was finishing up Acts and we started going through various letters by Paul. The mindset I mentioned above has been exercised thoroughly over the past couple of years thanks to the books of the Bible we've studied in that group.
Even though I've warmed up to Paul, some of his writings on sex still rub me the wrong way. Not the "sexual perversion" stuff so much as there being a struggle for me as a sexually active married man reading how this ascetic dismissed physical affection and a couple of times seems to begrudgingly accept that not everyone is going to take a vow of sexual abstinence for life.
What has most affected my view on the Bible's teachings on homosexuality has actually been how others have been instructing me on understanding the brutal acts and showmanship that God and the Israelites took part in the OT. If the genocide of Canaan by Joshua needs to be seen in the context of the brutal nature of ancient civilizations, what about the laws on sex?
Although there are a couple of examples in ancient Greek texts about men that were exclusively interested in sex with other men, homosexual acts by "straight" men were common practice in most civilizations (apparently the Assyrians were particularly fond of gay sex and left behind a huge collection of artifacts showing that fondness). During those times, men lying down with other men could easily mean nearly any man and not just a portion of the population that had an innate sexual orientation to want that. So, God created these men to desire women, but they spurned that, seeking only physical pleasure however they could get it. THAT is the abomination that is railed against, IMO. While Paul does single out homosexuality in Romans, most of his sex talk is about a whole host of sexual perversions and excesses. A person seeking only to get their rocks off is quite different, IMO, compared to a homosexual that is in a committed relationship -- sexually speaking, Hookup Johnny sins more than a married Adam and Steve.
Regardless of my current feelings on the context of the homosexual comments in the Bible, the continuous lessons in both the OT and NT about being a good host and helping those in need are my template of how I feel I should treat everyone. We are all sinners. We each have our individual struggles and victories that are unique in difficulty for each of us. Being a positive light and trying to grow the goodness in everyone around us is far more important than pointing out sin and harassing sinners. I want to bring as many people to God as I can and it is up to Him to work with that person on his or her sin.
Re: Where I am right now on homosexuality and the Bible
Date: 2013-05-31 02:53 am (UTC)Re Steve and Adam: I always come back to Romans again and this little verse everyone seems to miss: 2:4 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? We are t show his kindness, forbearance, patience. God and he alone leads me, you, Adam, and Stee to repentance. But you can't get to repentance if you aren't experiencing Gods loving kindness. But just to be clear, loving kindness, forebearance and patience do not equal "hearty assent."